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05-03-2014 2:50:42 PM CST
You know how stupid it is to criticize something that you have never seen and people you have never talked to. As I have repeatedly said. The Charros are ready to do a scientific study of the dangers of Charreda. That is because they know it is not as dangerous to animals as high school football is to children. It is less dangerous to horses then jumping. So at least watch it before you start flapping your lips. You can see it live on Spanish TV, decharros(dot)com and charroup(dot)com. If you can get to know a charro, you will find out that they are not scum, they are not cruel and barbaric. They are good people who would never intentionally hurt an animal.
05-03-2014 2:33:16 PM CST
Mr. Janssen, "Flapping lips and no proof?" Are you trying to intimidate me with insults? "Small minded people like me and Larson?" There you go again!
And you think Larson and I are ignorant? Scum? Crackpots?
Gee, Mr. Janssen, you do go to extremes to hurt your own case, don't you!
05-03-2014 2:12:27 PM CST
To Walter Grant: Again with the flapping lips and no proof. I have posted all the racist ranting from the animal rights fanatics on my home page. Take the time to read it. I have also posted the one picture of a horse killed in a bad catch in mangana. There is one video done by Steve Hendi, showing the same two catches over and over, even in slow motion. This video is edited to show the horses being caught, but not show them getting up and trotting away. That is what happened. The problem with Charros, is that they are politically naïve. So they are not prepared to defend themselves. It is a shame though because they are good people, that have to put up with the racist ranting of people like you. People who like you and Larson, who have never been to a Charreada. Small minded people like you and Larson, who refuse the Charro Challenge, that is to do a scientific study of the dangers of Charreada. The Charros have been ready to do it for six years. But ignorant people like you and Larson, refuse because you would rather think Mexicans are scum. That is because only scum would do what you are accusing the Charros of doing. It is too bad that these good people have to put up with crackpots like you and Larson. So again, if you have proof of animals being injured in Charreada, send it to me and I will post it. Proof is not unsubstantiated ranting from someone who has never been to a Charreada. It is pictures or videos of injuries in the lienzo. You can see live Charreada on Spanish TV or charroup (dot) com. You can also see videos of complete Charreada if you google livestreamdecharros. I want you to watch it so you will see that Charros and Charras are good people who would never intentionally hurt animals
Walter Grant firstname.lastname@example.org
05-03-2014 12:32:36 PM CST
I have been following with interest, and I must say some amusement, your discussion with Dr. P. Larson. I must say she has repeatedly eaten your lunch.
Your repeated assertions that horses are not injured in mangana, or as it is often called horse-tripping, is absurd. Even a cursory perusal of evidence readily available on the Internet proves your assertions are false.
Certainly, the fact that the practice is banned in several states and communities would lead one to believe that plenty of well-informed people agree that charrera is harmful to horses.
05-02-2014 3:55:57 PM CST
To P. Larson: I did not have time to get to your other rant. I am always amused when animal rights fanatics complain about rodeo people wanting to “dominate” animals. Domination is the type of relationship all people have with animals. What can be more dominating then eating animals. Even vegetarians and vegans dominate animals. If you have put a dog on a leash, your dominating it. If you feed a dog or cat, your dominating the animals that were killed to go into their food. (I was once contacted by a real kook, who said she would never own a cat, because cats were part of the blood death cycle. I was halfway tempted to ask her, what we should do with those killer cats, but I was afraid of her answer) Domination is not an issue, because anyone who has contact with animals does it. The question is, is the domination reasonable? You need to answer three questions to make that determination. What are the benefits? What are the dangers? Do the benefits outweigh the dangers? The benefits of Charreada are the enjoyment of the team members. The enjoyment the audience derives. The maintaining of the traditions. Most of all though, is the fact that Charreada is a teams competition. The teams are usually formed around extended families. Competing together strengthens the family bonds. The dangers are Charros do get killed along with a very few animals. Yet those of us who know Charros, and can see the cohesion created by the family participation, understand that the benefits completely outweigh the dangers.
05-01-2014 7:46:25 PM CST
To P Larson: The Charros Federation USA, does not have any rules about anything. It has no rules at all because it is not real. It is a figment of somebody's imagination. Main stream Charrreada in both Mexico and the US follows rules promulgated by the FMCH (Federacion Mexicana Charreria), which has its headquarters in Mexico City. There usually about 400 teams in the US that belong to the FMCH. There is a rule against traditional mangana in the US, that was passed after California made a law agist traditional mangana during an emergency special session. The original attempt to stop traditional mangana failed during the regular session. The law against traditional mangana, was passed at the same time the anti immigrant Prop 187 passed. (Prop 187 was latter declared unconstitutional) Since Charros are very concerned with the society in Charreada, the FMCH passed a rule against traditional mangana to keep the teams from California from being at a disadvantage when competing against teams from states that did not have the ban. The FMCH, still allows tradition mangana with the complete capture in Mexico. That is because the Charros know there is nothing wrong with traditional mangana. The only people who have problems with it are some nervous Nellys who have never gotten to know Charros. If they did get to know them, they would find out that Charros and Charras are good people who would never intentionally hurt an animal. They are not ignorant nor cruel and barbaric.
P. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
05-01-2014 5:41:10 PM CST
The California-based Charros Federation USA states that it has voluntarily banned horse-tripping in mainstream charros for over 15 years.
P. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
05-01-2014 5:09:35 PM CST
You are getting repetitious. Did you finally run out of "bullshit" to peddle? You erroneously assumed that I am a "genuine animal rights fanatic". If it damaged me monetarily, I would present evidence that would allow me to sue the socks off of you. Giving me a label based on your fear of anyone more educated and experienced than you and your desperate need to dominate are merely more pieces of evidence of your self serving mendacity. Since you have nothing more to add to this discussion, and since I have a full surgical load tomorrow, I am ending this discussion. Get some help. See a therapist. Stop abusing helpless animals.
05-01-2014 1:14:37 PM CST
To P. Larson: I bet you don't eat meat. The actual MRI study said that dogs react to human emotions, not that they have emotions. Also animals have similar brains, but not the same. That is because we all evolved from the same protozoa. Humans developed further. One of the reasons we developed to a higher intellectual level is because we eat meat. Not to be facetious, I would like to know what the large animals are thinking. Do you talk to them and do they answer? As far as the propaganda about dead horses. Animal rights fanatics like Steve Hendi, have been taking pictures and videos of Charreada for over 20 years. If the animals had the injuries you now say, that documentation would be all over the internet. It is not. That is because all the animal rights fanatics have is flapping lips spewing racist ranting. What is all over the internet is hundreds of videos showing horses caught by their legs getting up and trotting away unhurt. That is what happens. Charros and Charras are good people who would never intentionally hurt an animal. They have been catching horses by their legs for over 400 years. If they were doing serious injuries to them on a regular basis they would have stopped. These are not ignorant nor cruel and barbaric people.
P. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
05-01-2014 11:47:48 AM CST
Since your site doesn't allow the posting of websites, google "horses killed or injured in horse tripping in charreadas". There are multiple listings of horses that are injured or killed due to horse tripping.
P. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
05-01-2014 11:43:44 AM CST
Regarding the students, half are injured because they are "overused" which means they resumed the sport before they healed from the injury. This is exactly what happens to horses. They never get a chance to heal. Eventually they wind up at slaughter.
I googled MRI's and emotions and you are dead wrong. Science proves that dogs are very similar to humans regarding emotions. As a large animal veterinarian, horses and cattle do "think". And they are dangerous when they are tortured and frightened by humans. I treated many horses over the years and was never injured. Stop making these unscientific and untrue statements to cover a sociopathic need to dominate and abuse animals.
04-30-2014 7:34:49 PM CST
3.5 million children play high school football each year. 50 thousand are hospitalized. Almost 20 thousand horses were used in Charreadas in Mexico that were broadcast live. None were seriously hurt. Do the math. Also, they did MRIs on dogs and concluded, they were not exhibiting emotional responses. Horses have animal instincts and Pavlovian responses. They react, but they don't think or contemplate. They also can be very dangerous to people. That is why we have to maintain the knowledge of ways to control them. This includes catching horses by their legs.
P. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
04-30-2014 6:13:44 PM CST
You didn't answer my question. Why do you state that horses do not feel pain or emotion (fear)? I watched a video of a horse being roped and thrown again and again. The horse was terrified, based on my knowledge of animals as a large animal veterinarian. The harder the horse fell, the louder the cheers. Sick!! My husband who is both a neurologist and a psychiatrist says that treating a defenseless animal like that and cheering when it falls is one of the symptoms of a sociopath. He is appalled at this event.
There are 350,000 million people in the US. Of course, more kids will be injured than horses. Look at the percentage, not the numbers.
04-30-2014 5:37:21 PM CST
Peggy Larson:Every year between 10 and 20 children die in high school football. Over 50,000 are hospitalized with serious injuries. In the 2011 to 20012 season in Mexico almost 20,000 horses were used in mangan and piales during major televised events. None of them died and none of them had serious injuries. In the almost 25 years I have been a Charro, I have seen one horse killed and I have heard of 2 others. If you look at the statistics, a high school football player has a better chance of dyeing then a horse in Charreada. Charreada is a celebration of the traditional animal husbandry in Mexico. It was and is a way to let the people express their pride in their history and is an excellent way to keep children, especially boys involved with their family. The animals are not seriously hurt on a regular basis. Yes on a very few occasions, some do get killed, but animals die in rodeo and horse jumping. Children die in high school football. We continue to do these things, even though children might die, because the benefits outweigh the dangers.
P. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
04-30-2014 8:39:37 AM CST
For Randy Janssen: Would you explain to us your statement that "I know that horses feel no pain and have no emotion (fear)"?
To refute this ignorant position, nervous systems in humans and animals are identical. My husband, a medical doctor, dissected a human body in his anatomy class. I dissected a pony in my anatomy class. The brain and nervous system are identical. In both of our physiology classes, brain and muscle functions (as well as bodily functions) are identical.
When I vaccinated or treated horses in my large animal practice, they would respond to pain by trying to escape or by kicking. When I used pain medication or nerve blocks, there was no further response.
You say horses are never injured in the horse tripping event. When one of the TV stations in Los Angeles did a story on this "sport", they showed a dead horse in the arena. It was a bay horse that bore the resemblance to an Arabian.
I doubt you are capable of being educated on this subject but the readers of this diatribe might be interested in understanding your ignorance of horses.
P. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
04-29-2014 6:44:54 PM CST
For Randy Janssen: No competent lawyer would make such a ridiculous statement. In court, I would bury you. FYI, injured football players would be rested and would recover before playing again. Some never play again. Horses do not have that privilege. Injured horses are merely re-used and re-used again with no thought to their injuries. Try to focus when you read my statement. Shame on your adolescent behavior!
04-27-2014 6:49:33 AM CST
I did some checking and P. Larson DVM, MS, JD, is a genuine animal rights fanatic. She does not like rodeo, hunting and thinks the American Veterinarian Association is soft on animal cruelty. I would like to thank her for supporting my position. You notice that she does not say all or even most of the horses die or have to be put down. She does not even say any of them die. She says they can get bumps and burses. What she describes is the same type of injuries high school football players have after practice. I have always maintained that the animals used in Charreada are less likely to be injured then a high school football player. Horses are less likely to be injured in Charreada then in jumping, because the captures in mangana and piales are practiced take downs and not just accidents. So thank you Peggy for all your help.
P. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
04-25-2014 6:28:14 PM CST
In my state, horse tripping is considered felony animal abuse. Shameful abuse of horses. Sick! Just because the horse manages to survive the fall doesn't mean it is not injured. Bruised muscles, stretched and torn ligaments, skin damage to name a few. Mr. Janssen, you should know better!
01-21-2014 6:09:21 AM CST
To Letty Grayson: If you have proof of animals being seriously injured in charreada, send it to me and I will post it. Proof is not unsubstantiated ranting by someone who has never seen a charreada. It is pictures or videos of animals hurt in the lienzo. You can watch live Charreada on decharros(dot)com and Charroup(dot)com. You can also see it on Spanish language TV. I want you to watch so you will see that Charros and Charras are good people who would never intentionally hurt an animal. Please watch this video.
01-20-2014 11:03:33 PM CST
I can't imagine what would make a human being have no compassion for the pain of an innocent animal. That type of person would treat other humans the same way, given the right circumstances. It will be stopped.
11-06-2013 9:29:34 AM CST
Like Obamacare, the number of people trying to watch the Nacionals on the internet took out the system. It is back uo with better video. Just go to facebook and search Federacion Mexicana Charreria and click on livestream.
11-02-2013 6:45:11 AM CST
You can watch live broadcast of the National Finales of Charreada on decharros.com. Please watch it and you will see that very few animals are injured in the lienzo. You will also see that Charros and Charras are good people who would never intentionally hurt an animal.
08-10-2013 5:38:08 AM CST
To A Dobbin: Most AR fanatics are gutless, and they don't have the nerve to use their own name. I just assumed you were another one of them. Just a coward.
08-09-2013 6:46:17 PM CST
Says he replying to 'A Dobbin' ...... Neigh...
08-09-2013 6:27:00 PM CST
To A Dobbin: What you are talking about is not Charreada. There are 74 pages of rules for Charreada, many of which are for the protection of the animals. Before you start yammering about something, you should learn about what you are talking about. Otherwise you end up looking stupid.