horse tripping mangana humane society peta

Randy Janssen
07-18-2012 11:42:31 AM CST
Had my grandchildren with me yesterday. The two young ones had to swim and took the oldest to practice with her Escaramuza. Did not get to watch Charreada on DeCharros.com. Bringing lunch in, so I can watch it in my office, if my clients will leave me alone. Remember DeCharros.com has Charreadas at 12, 4 and 8. Don’t miss it. For the AR fanatics out there, watch it, so you can see that Charros and Charras are good people who would not intentionally hurt animals.

Randy Janssen
07-16-2012 5:14:44 AM CST
Saw a great Escaramuza, called Pinotepa , on DeCharros.com, yesterday. They did a transition from a Cross to an Escalera that was very exciting. Also they had a move from a Gero, to a Cross, that would knock your socks off. Too bad, but no piales caught in the same Charreada. As expected the florero was great. I spoke too soon in my post yesterday; a mangalador was hit by a horse. He was down for a while, but then he got up and finished the suerte. One tough guy. There were a few glitches when the internet, lost the transmission of the third terna. Can’t really complain though. I was watching on a 50 inch TV while sitting on my own couch. After so many cement benches, this is great.

Randy Janssen
07-15-2012 6:29:36 AM CST
I was watching the Charreada in Acapulco yesterday, on DeCharros.com. A mangalador, was on foot and catching the horse with the rope around the neck. When he caught the horse, he would then drop on his back to bring the horse down. He caught the first two, but on the third try, he only caught one leg. He ran forward, but he tripped. My first though, was he could get hurt, but the announcer calmly said, this cost him points because he lost his hat. Too bad because he did some great florero. I really admire, a mangaldor on foot, because he has to be able to do his florero, while three men chase a horse around the lienzo, toward him. One misstep and he could be run over by any or all of the four horses. You have to really trust the guys helping you and have nerves of steel.

Randy Janssen
07-14-2012 9:14:59 AM CST
watched the live broadcast of Charreada on DeCharros.com. As they said, it was a test, so there were some glitches. All and all, it was pretty good. Like most Charreada, there were dead spots that should be tightened up. That is because the competition in being held in a soccer arena with a temporary Lienzo. If you have never seen Charreada, you should watch. For those of you who are Animal Rights advocates, you will be able to see, that the animals might get bounced around a little, but then they get up and trot away. You will see that livestock are not pets. They are pretty tough. Remember, before we had cars, horses, were the primary mode of transportation. They pulled the guns for Lee and Grant, the hunted with the Sioux and Cheyenne. They faught with Villa. I admire their strength and it really pisses me off when the AR fanatics make them out to be wimps.

Randy Janssen
07-05-2012 12:45:22 PM CST
A Charro competition, named “Triangulo de el Sur”, will be broadcast live on decharros dot com. It starts on July 13 and will run until July 22. It will be announced in both English and Spanish. Please support Charreria by watching.

Randy Janssen
07-05-2012 5:53:55 AM CST
To Becky K. The black horse mentioned on the home page that was caught on the gravel road was my saddle horse until he was 17 or 18. At that age he was a little gentler, so I bought a new three year old and let some girls ride him in the Escaramuza. We don’t use our own horses in roping events, because we are ridding them. The horses used by charros are rented from brokers, who buy and sell horses. They get them from auctions. The horses go to auction for three main reasons. The owners can’t afford to feed them, they are dangerous or they are ugly. Their heads are too big, their chest too small. They are knocked knead. After they are used in the Charreada, they are returned. If they are injured, the Charros have to pay for them. This can run anywhere from $800.00 and up. We had to pay for a bucking horse recently. It was killed when it flipped backwards. That cost over $1,000.00. After you pay the broker, then you have to pay the rendering plant to pick up the horse, since the broker, will not pick up a horse he cannot resell. If the Charros killed all the animals, the AR fanatics claim, they would be bankrupt. If you look at the Winnemucca video on YouTube, you can see where the corrals were videoed. We want people to come and if they like take pictures and videos. There is a sign at the San Antonio Charros, saying you can’t video or take pictures, but I have never seen it enforced. It went up, because the people, who tried to video, went around like a bunch of arrogant Anglos, almost screaming about how the animals were being abused. So if you don’t act like you a 13 year old, with a chip on your shoulder, you should not have a problem.

Becky K
07-04-2012 11:33:05 AM CST
I have a few questions that maybe you can clarify. Where do you source the horses used in the events from? Are they horses already destined for slaughter? What is done with the horses at the end of the season? Do any of the horses and cattle used receive veterinary care and if someone were to visit an event would they be allowed to walk around the holding pens to see if animals have sustained injuries? Lastly, if there are so few injuries as you claim, would you allow your personal saddle horses to be used as the stock being roped? Thank you.

D mcgrathde ortiz mcgrathd3232yahoocomm
06-18-2012 2:51:51 PM CST
MY MAME IS DAVID M AND I LIVE IN NORTHERN CALI. Charriada is alive here. if all people are are truthfull there are problems with coleaderos and pialaderos When piales iS DONE CORRECT FEW INJURIES HAPPEN .In COLEADEROS THE ABILITY OF THE HORSEMEN IS BELOW THE CALIBUR OF THE TRUE CHARRO .The HORSEMAN LACK TRAINED HORSES AND ONLY HAVE SUCCESS WHEN THE CATTLE ARE TIRED. AT All Charriadas that i supply cattle for accidents occur but are rare .. THE WORST is when the cattle are not fresh Thats when you loose the tails cause the cattle learn to set and brace against the pull. I AM NOT MEXICAN i am Hispanic and i love Charriada Funny thing my people are galleros chicken fighters but i dont like chickens. I would like to remind the haters of Charriada CALIFORNIA was mexico as hispanic i claim the right to live CHARRIADA and i live now on a old mexican land grant. next please remember that 14 million hipanics californians will changee the U S A with our legal vote. POLITITIONS say as california goes the U S A. BEDIGAS A TODOS DM

Randy Janssen
05-31-2012 4:26:36 PM CST
To Ms. Blood; If you have proof of animals being injured in Charreria, send it to me and I will post it. Proof is not unsubstantiated ranting by someone who has never been in a lienzo. It is pictures or videos of animals in injured during Charreada. You can find Charreada broadcast live on the internet and Spanish TV. I want you to watch, because you will see, Charros and Charras, working with their families to preserve a beautiful tradition. These are good family people who would never intentionally hurt an animal. So don’t let your emotions get the better of you. Find out what the truth is.

Kay Blood
05-30-2012 4:09:56 PM CST
Any and all of you that think it is okay to do anything other than give a horse kindness and ride it with respect are monsters, you are filth. I bet you are cruel to humans as well and probably harm other animals when you have the opportunity. Too bad you can't be put in an arena to be tripped and dragged and spurred. Wonder how you'd like it - oh, and then be sent to slaughter if you make it out of the arena without needing to be euthanized. You're filth.

Randy Janssen
03-20-2012 2:29:38 PM CST
Eric; your jumping all over the place. Lets try this one thing at a time. Yes, some very stupid people punish a horse with their spurs. They are stupid, because you make the horse susceptible to infection when you open the hide. I loaned the black horse I mentioned on the home page to a young man, because he needed a great cola horse and that horse was a great cola horse. When he came back he was bloody, from being racked with spurs. That was the last time he ever rode the horse. 15 maybe 20 other young men used him in cola. He came back fine. Do you condemn all Charros, because of one or two. Next, yes horses can get broken in cola, I have seen one and heard of two others. I have seen a steer broken in cola, and have heard of another. I have also seen a steer with a dislocated leg in cola. That leg, was popped back into place and that animal probably was on the McDonald's menu. But I have been a Charro for 20 years and go to 20 to 30 Charreadas every year. That is between 400 and 600 Charreadas with 27 colas per Charreada. That is over 8,000 colas. By the way, I have never seen a steer lose its tail in cola, I have seen a couple of horns broken and the hair at the end of the tail pulled off. I have even seen tails broken, but never the whole tail pulled off. It probably happens, but I have never seen it. But then, we use healthy animals and if you use healthy animals, you seldom have problems. I have never bitten a horse's ear, but I have held one tightly, when I needed to control the animal. I have even put a twitch on a horse's lower lip, when I needed calm it down. A twitch is a rope loop or even a chain loop on a stick, that you wrap around the lower lip to get the horses attention. You do this, because horses are large dangerous animals, that, if not properly handled, can kill you. Even Shetland ponies can be a problem. I was helping my vet do a coggins test on a pony and it fought. He asked me to grab its lower lip and twist it. When I did the pony let him draw the blood. Dogs chase horses. It is part of their nature. I had my hand split open, when a dog ran out and started barking at the horse I was ridding. The hose protected itself by kicking out its back legs. I pitched forward and split two of my fingers apart on the saddle horn. The dog limped away. I think he died. Since I was bleeding profusely, I was not in a position to find out. I doubt anyone wanted the dogs to chase the horses in piales, since you want the horse to run straight and at a constant speed. Dogs will disrupt the horse your trying to catch and probably the one you are on. They are going to want to defend themselves, like my horse. Every time I have seen a dog get into the lienzo, during a Charreada, it is quickly removed. It is a danger to both the animal and human participants and even itself. I see you have not mentioned any horses you have seen being seriously injured in mangana. You also have not mentioned seeing any horses being seriously injured in piales. Going back to my original premises, yes animals can be killed in Charreada, just like they are killed in rodeo, steeplechase and cross country. They die, just like children die in high school football. But the fact is, the number of animals seriously injured or killed is minimal, in comparison to the number used. This danger, is outweighed, by the benefits derived from Charreria. If you got to know the Charros and Charras, as individuals, you would see what I mean. It is all about family. That is a great thing. So what you are saying, a large number animals die in Charreada and we say, it is very, very few. I will offer you the Charro Challenge again. Lets do a scientific study of the respective dangers to animals and people in contact sports. Let see what the truth is. Lets find out.

Eric Mills afa@mcn.org
03-10-2012 3:04:31 PM CST
Hey, Randy. Speaking of injuries, you'll doubtlessly recall the incident in Denver two years ago at a steer tailing competition, where 7 steers had their tails stripped to the bone, and two others suffered a broken pelvis and broken leg, respectively, and were destroyed. Got lots of press coverage. (See GOOGLE.) And your readers should GOOGLE a September 29, 2010 article entitled, "Dust in the Wind," in the SAN DIEGO CITY BEAT. There's a link at the end featuring a couple of dozen photos of illegal piales events (with dogs in the arena snapping at the horses' heels); a guy biting a horse's ear so that the pain keeps the animal steady in the chute; extensive misuse of electric prods; and a photo from the same event I got from the photographer (not featured in the collection) showing an Arabian filly with the most extensive spurring damage I've EVER seen on a horse, either PRCA or charreada, caused illegal sharpened spurs. And this was a SANCTIONED event put on by our friend Toby de la Torre. I also have in hand a four-minute video showing another steer having his tail ripped off, an incident at a March 2011 charreada at the Pico Rivera, CA charreada arena (another of Toby's productions). Nor should we forget the 1994 four-part series done by KABC TV out of L.A., "Renegade Rodeos," which featured three horses who had their legs broken during colas when the steers ran the wrong way. FYI, a California legislator had planned to introduce a bill last month to outlaw colas, but chickened out at the last minute, fearing a political backlash from his constituents. (Pico Rivera is in his home district.) Ain't politics grand?! Should also note that I had an unbacked bill to ban calf roping (again) - no takers. As you say, it's at least as bad as steer tailing. 'Nuff? Cheers, Eric Mills, coordinator ACTION FOR ANIMALS Oakland email - afa@mcn.org And your

Randy Janssen
03-06-2012 6:35:25 AM CST
Eric; I was wondering where you were. If you have proof of any animal being injured in Charreada, post it on youtube and link it here. I have linked over 300 videos of horses being used in mangana. All of them, got up and trotted away after they had been caught. I have posted videos of steers used in cola and horses used in piales. They are not hurt. So far, your friend Hendi has posted the mangana video, where the horses are not hurt and one bull with a leg broken in cola. He has been going to Charreadas in Illinois for at least five years. I know, you have been going to Charreadas for over 20 years. How many hundreds or maybe even thousands of animals have you seen used in Charreada? As I have repeatedly said, yes there is a slight danger to animals in Charreada. A very few animals are even killed, but the benefits outweigh the dangers. It is just like high school football. Kids die every year in high school football, but we still play, because the game gives something to society we need. In Charreria, it is the strengthening of the family. If you spent more time getting to know the Charros and Charras, and less time worrying about the animals, you would understand what I mean. These are not cruel and barbaric people as Williams and Doyle say. They are good people who care for their families and for the animals they use.

Eric Mills afa@mcn.org
03-05-2012 12:44:48 PM CST
Hey, Randy. Hope you're doing well. Long time, no hear. Just for the record, I've never said that charreada accidents "were few and far between." Though they may be fewer than, say, at steeple chase or horse racing, there's a risk of injury EVERY time a horse is felled in the manganas. And I have statements from vets saying that the piales event ("horse heel catching") is even more dangerous for the horses than the manganas, even though the piales horses generally do not fall. And steer tailing ("colas") is always potentially bad for the animals. Remember the seven steers who had their tails stripped to the bone in Denver two years ago? Plus two others with a broken pelvis and broken leg, respectively? And I have a video of another steer who had his tail ripped off last March at the Pico Rivera arena here in California. Too, horses may suffer broken legs when the steers run the wrong way. (I have video footage.) Should note, too, that the recent unsuccessful efforts to ban manganas in Colorado, Oregon and Nevada had much more to do with opposition from the rodeo folks and the cattlemen's associations than anything else. I imagine there'll be future such efforts there, and in other states as well. Cheers, Eric Mills, coordinator ACTION FOR ANIMALS Oakland, CA email - afa@mcn.org

Randy Janssn
02-09-2012 6:28:10 AM CST
To Ashley. If you look on this web page, you will see a picture of a horse that was killed by a bad catch. That was in 1993. I have always admitted to seeing another horse killed by a bad catch. In both cases the animals died in the arena. The video of the horse falling in Nevada also showed the corrals in the back. Charros don’t try to hide the events, that is because they know injuries to the animals are few and far between. Even Eric Mills has admitted this. The only reason the nine states that have made mangana illegal did so, was because they were lied to. The last three states where the misguided efforts of the animal rights fanatics tried to make mangana illegal, failed. Therefore it is legal, in the vast majority of the states.

ashley b
02-08-2012 3:38:29 PM CST
There is no "evidence" because the animals are sent to slaughter at the end of the season you moron. This will never be legal in the states. This is not a family event, it's sick, like dog fighting. You need professional medical help, sicko.

Randy Janssen
01-16-2012 6:22:50 AM CST
To the previous post. I see you don’t have the nerve to use your name. If you have proof of horses being seriously injured in mangana, send it to me and I will post it. Proof is not unsubstantiated ranting by someone who has never been to a lienzo. It is pictures or videos of the animals being injured in the lienzo. If you want to watch, Charreria is broadcast live on the internet and Spanish TV. As far as Charros and Charras being sick. They are good family people, who take pride in maintaining the traditions of Charreria. The only real difference between them and their critics, is their extensive experience with livestock. Most of the people who oppose mangana have little or none.

.
01-16-2012 2:26:27 AM CST
this is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard. you cant possibly tell me that these people are 'securing a large dangerous animal'. i wouldn't argue this if they were actually out on the plains and needed to catch a 'beast'. but that is hardly what is going on. crowds of hundreds of pathetic people come and sit and watch, laughing the whole time. you cant really think that this isn't just for the pleasure of watching an animal that is stronger that you struggle. you people are sick. just the name "horse tripping" tells you right there that it isn't safe. if there was a 'human tripping' game do you think people would assume that was safe? kind of a ridiculous question to even ask, don't you think? i hope you don't actually think that you are going to get people to believe you. you versus the entire organization of PETA. i wish you luck.

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